Open letters
The letters below are open for discussion and the INform team invites comments, answers and further questions either relating to these letters or posing new topics. Make yourself heard and send us your feedback now
Spoon feed your clients?
From my years of involvement in quality, I find that the ISO 9001 auditor is now required to be incredibly holistic in his or her approach.
It appears that to be an effective auditor under the new standard you must be part quality manager, part accountant, part management consultant, part software expert and part environmentalist. This range of skills cannot be taught in a week-long ISO 9001 auditor/lead auditor course. They have to be learnt over a period of time and through a range of work experience.
I have found that management increasingly relies on me to guide it through complex audit results. The new standard leads to more debate about the results. I have to be part diplomat and part teacher. I spend a lot of my time explaining simple points to managers so they understand what needs to be changed to improve business. My experience has helped a lot, but for new and inexperienced auditors the new standard can be intimidating.
Kenneth Flatters
principal auditor, UK
Global forum on confusion
From my experience, the management of the food production and distribution chain is an emerging issue. The producers (as well as regulatory bodies and auditors) are very confused by retailers and other market demands (ISO 15161, BRC, EUREPGAP, EFS etc). It needs to be coordinated.
In 1998 we issued a first version of AG 9000 that united the important points relevant to Israeli growers exporting to international outlets. The initiative was welcomed by users but faces major difficulties in benchmarking and recognition. An open auditor"s forum to discuss this issue may contribute to a more global approach.
Dr Shaul Yanai
QMS lead auditor, Israel
IRCA comments:
Yes, it is confused at the moment, for all the reasons you list. But from our discussions with the various stakeholder groups (Eurepgap, GFSI, ISO etc) we understand there is a concerted and very serious effort to rationalise the differences into a harmonized structure that addresses the interests of all parts of the producer, distributor, and retailer chain.
IRCA does not think that an auditors" open forum would add much to the debate at this stage. We have to accept that the principal interest groups within this industry are competent and working hard to create clarity. They have acknowledged the problem and are investing a considerable effort in creating a structure to assure quality and safety. IRCA does welcome views from more auditors on this subject however.
IRCA is monitoring the progress very closely, and is awaiting the issue of ISO 22000. In common with many from the industry, we think that this new standard will be adopted generally, in which case we will consider making it (and not ISO 15161) the reference standard upon which we base our food safety auditor program. We are also working with bodies that represent a variety of stakeholders in this industry.
However, there is some way to go yet before the industry as a whole has achieved a coherent approach toward control and assurance.
Auditing undocumented processes
I read the first issue of the new e-zine with interest. In his article ‘The benefits of ISO 9001:2000", Dave Powley implies that a process cannot be audited unless it is ‘put into the audit arena" by being presented in the form of a procedure.
I am extremely surprised to read this. I thought the whole idea was to allow companies the freedom to control processes more creatively. Is he saying that he cannot audit undocumented processes or that no-one can? Admittedly, it's easier on the auditor to audit the ‘say what you do and do what you say" type of system, but it certainly isn't true that a process has to be documented before you can determine that it is controlled. I have been teaching auditors to do just that for the past two years.
Chris Gowens,
QMS 2000 principal auditor, UK
Your transition experiences
Please let us know how the transition went for you and your company or clients. We want to hear about good or bad experiences, so send us your reports.
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